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	<title>Comments on: What We Read When We Don&#8217;t Read the Internet PRESENTS! Au Revoir, Pretty Horses; Or, Why I Don&#8217;t Read Man Books Any More</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/</link>
	<description>Kumbaya Motherf*cker Central</description>
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		<title>By: sadielou</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-18028</link>
		<dc:creator>sadielou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 23:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-18028</guid>
		<description>I read manfiction.  I am that Girl Who Hangs Out With Boys, and it&#039;s not internalized misogyny, it&#039;s that I actually don&#039;t get along with most women.  (Read that as paradoxical if you will.)  I can&#039;t gossip for shit, I&#039;m a bit reckless and geeky and horny, and frankly I just have more in common with most men.  Your homesteading, hitchhiking women? I&#039;ve never met them.  Maybe someday.

Occasionally it&#039;s disappointing when my favorite authors act like they just can&#039;t conceive that some women are like them.  James Joyce and Neal Stephenson (yeah, yeah, odd juxtaposition) have both irritated me on occasion.  I&#039;m Stephen Dedalus, not Molly Bloom. I&#039;m more like the Rogue Hacker of fiction than his cardboard love interest.  But, you know, I still love those books, because I&#039;d rather read about characters who share my nature if not my gender.
I like Kerouac (even though he&#039;s shitty to women) and Vollman and Thoreau and Hemingway (even though they&#039;re also shitty to women) because they&#039;re the American individualist tradition, and I&#039;m an American individualist.  Albeit one with boobs.

The obligation to have solidarity with other women is something I don&#039;t like... because I&#039;m a person first and then a woman.  I know a couple gay guys and Native Americans who have the same attitude about their respective &quot;groups.&quot;  In a past generation quite a few black people had that attitude.  I just think that you can associate with, or identify with, whomever you prefer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read manfiction.  I am that Girl Who Hangs Out With Boys, and it&#8217;s not internalized misogyny, it&#8217;s that I actually don&#8217;t get along with most women.  (Read that as paradoxical if you will.)  I can&#8217;t gossip for shit, I&#8217;m a bit reckless and geeky and horny, and frankly I just have more in common with most men.  Your homesteading, hitchhiking women? I&#8217;ve never met them.  Maybe someday.</p>
<p>Occasionally it&#8217;s disappointing when my favorite authors act like they just can&#8217;t conceive that some women are like them.  James Joyce and Neal Stephenson (yeah, yeah, odd juxtaposition) have both irritated me on occasion.  I&#8217;m Stephen Dedalus, not Molly Bloom. I&#8217;m more like the Rogue Hacker of fiction than his cardboard love interest.  But, you know, I still love those books, because I&#8217;d rather read about characters who share my nature if not my gender.<br />
I like Kerouac (even though he&#8217;s shitty to women) and Vollman and Thoreau and Hemingway (even though they&#8217;re also shitty to women) because they&#8217;re the American individualist tradition, and I&#8217;m an American individualist.  Albeit one with boobs.</p>
<p>The obligation to have solidarity with other women is something I don&#8217;t like&#8230; because I&#8217;m a person first and then a woman.  I know a couple gay guys and Native Americans who have the same attitude about their respective &#8220;groups.&#8221;  In a past generation quite a few black people had that attitude.  I just think that you can associate with, or identify with, whomever you prefer.</p>
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		<title>By: Rad Geek People&#8217;s Daily 2010-06-21 &#8211; Monday Lazy Linking</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-17475</link>
		<dc:creator>Rad Geek People&#8217;s Daily 2010-06-21 &#8211; Monday Lazy Linking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-17475</guid>
		<description>[...] What We Read When We Don’t Read the Internet PRESENTS! Au Revoir, Pretty Horses; Or, Why I Don’t.... &quot;Some more telling characteristics of Manfiction: ... 2. Male characters cannot communicate with their sons, brothers, and fathers. Or anybody else, really; but they are particularly hampered in inter-man relationships (this is important to emphasize regularly, because the only men who are capable of talking in polysyllabic phrases to other men are gay, and the only thing less manly than writing thoughtfully about women is writing about gays. An inability to communicate is the literary equivalent of the empty seat between two dudes in a movie theater). Instead of communicating the men will drink a lot, commit random acts of violence, beat their sons or pets, and drive around in trucks without speaking. These men do not have daughters.&quot; (Linked Sunday 2010-06-20.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What We Read When We Don’t Read the Internet PRESENTS! Au Revoir, Pretty Horses; Or, Why I Don’t&#8230;. &quot;Some more telling characteristics of Manfiction: &#8230; 2. Male characters cannot communicate with their sons, brothers, and fathers. Or anybody else, really; but they are particularly hampered in inter-man relationships (this is important to emphasize regularly, because the only men who are capable of talking in polysyllabic phrases to other men are gay, and the only thing less manly than writing thoughtfully about women is writing about gays. An inability to communicate is the literary equivalent of the empty seat between two dudes in a movie theater). Instead of communicating the men will drink a lot, commit random acts of violence, beat their sons or pets, and drive around in trucks without speaking. These men do not have daughters.&quot; (Linked Sunday 2010-06-20.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ode to Reginka &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-17392</link>
		<dc:creator>Ode to Reginka &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-17392</guid>
		<description>[...] she shows us just how arbitrary and ridiculous our standards of beauty are. I also love the manfiction [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] she shows us just how arbitrary and ridiculous our standards of beauty are. I also love the manfiction [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On&#8230; Real Bad Writing &#171; From the desk of Miss Minx&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-16442</link>
		<dc:creator>On&#8230; Real Bad Writing &#171; From the desk of Miss Minx&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-16442</guid>
		<description>[...] and while a lot of the authors included in one of our Historical Publications may be totally Man Writers, they are at least readable.  What I am working on &#8211; is completely unreadable.  Or at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and while a lot of the authors included in one of our Historical Publications may be totally Man Writers, they are at least readable.  What I am working on &#8211; is completely unreadable.  Or at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy Jane</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-15602</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-15602</guid>
		<description>Getting caught up on Tiger Beatdown, and I have to say I LOVE this post.  It takes me right back to being in middle school and trying to explain to my dad that no, I just couldn&#039;t get myself to read and enjoy Bradbury.  I feel like I should send him a link to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting caught up on Tiger Beatdown, and I have to say I LOVE this post.  It takes me right back to being in middle school and trying to explain to my dad that no, I just couldn&#8217;t get myself to read and enjoy Bradbury.  I feel like I should send him a link to this.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-15409</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jun 2010 01:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-15409</guid>
		<description>@JEB,

I agree entirely. I mean, you&#039;re a dude, who writes dude characters, largely for the enjoyment of other dudes. You know that there&#039;s a glut of this out there already, and that it&#039;s often shoved down our throats as the real kind of &quot;good writing&quot;. But how unfair, that women might be tired of it! Just because men tend to write swaths of shitty books about the same thing, over and over, target these books to each other, laud each other for the great &quot;art&quot; they&#039;ve produced, all while writing women in the worst possible ways if at all and refusing to read or acknowledge women&#039;s own writing as anything but trash... that doesn&#039;t mean women can just *stop reading*! I mean, what sort of person, upon realizing that reading certain kinds of books by certain kinds of people are quite likely to make them feel like shit, would then choose to stop reading those books entirely? How sad! What if as many as 1% of those books, like yours, might not be quite as insulting, though still about the same old things and not including women characters or actually making an effort to appeal to women? They&#039;d be missing out on a so-so book that doesn&#039;t have too much overt misogyny in it -- but written by a DUDE! My word! How could anyone limit themselves to reading only women and trusted men authors, knowing they could be creating such a hole in their lives? 

I wonder, as a writer, is there something you could maybe possibly do to help build a culture that has more books with good female characters, and more books that appeal to women in an intelligent way? Hmm... I thought I had an idea there but I&#039;ve forgotten what it was. Probably wasn&#039;t important, anyway. We should just be happy that a real live man agrees with us. At least in pretense! Enjoy your cookie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JEB,</p>
<p>I agree entirely. I mean, you&#8217;re a dude, who writes dude characters, largely for the enjoyment of other dudes. You know that there&#8217;s a glut of this out there already, and that it&#8217;s often shoved down our throats as the real kind of &#8220;good writing&#8221;. But how unfair, that women might be tired of it! Just because men tend to write swaths of shitty books about the same thing, over and over, target these books to each other, laud each other for the great &#8220;art&#8221; they&#8217;ve produced, all while writing women in the worst possible ways if at all and refusing to read or acknowledge women&#8217;s own writing as anything but trash&#8230; that doesn&#8217;t mean women can just *stop reading*! I mean, what sort of person, upon realizing that reading certain kinds of books by certain kinds of people are quite likely to make them feel like shit, would then choose to stop reading those books entirely? How sad! What if as many as 1% of those books, like yours, might not be quite as insulting, though still about the same old things and not including women characters or actually making an effort to appeal to women? They&#8217;d be missing out on a so-so book that doesn&#8217;t have too much overt misogyny in it &#8212; but written by a DUDE! My word! How could anyone limit themselves to reading only women and trusted men authors, knowing they could be creating such a hole in their lives? </p>
<p>I wonder, as a writer, is there something you could maybe possibly do to help build a culture that has more books with good female characters, and more books that appeal to women in an intelligent way? Hmm&#8230; I thought I had an idea there but I&#8217;ve forgotten what it was. Probably wasn&#8217;t important, anyway. We should just be happy that a real live man agrees with us. At least in pretense! Enjoy your cookie.</p>
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		<title>By: Boring Books &#38; Fierce Femininity &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-15175</link>
		<dc:creator>Boring Books &#38; Fierce Femininity &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-15175</guid>
		<description>[...] gradual life processes &#8212; tend to be dismissed as soft, as less meaningful than texts focused on men-stuff &#8212; violence, foreign lands, epic journeys, dramatic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gradual life processes &#8212; tend to be dismissed as soft, as less meaningful than texts focused on men-stuff &#8212; violence, foreign lands, epic journeys, dramatic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: belmanoir</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-15159</link>
		<dc:creator>belmanoir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 18:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-15159</guid>
		<description>Yes!  And what I find so hilarious about male writers&#039; clinging to this inability to communicate as a sign of manliness is that GUYS, YOU ARE WRITERS.  IF YOUR WRITING IS ANY GOOD THAT TAUTOLOGICALLY MEANS YOU ARE GOOD AT COMMUNICATING.  WHO EXACTLY DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!  And what I find so hilarious about male writers&#8217; clinging to this inability to communicate as a sign of manliness is that GUYS, YOU ARE WRITERS.  IF YOUR WRITING IS ANY GOOD THAT TAUTOLOGICALLY MEANS YOU ARE GOOD AT COMMUNICATING.  WHO EXACTLY DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING?</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-15144</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-15144</guid>
		<description>Dawn Powell.  Best female writer in the 20th Century.  Great female characters, great male characters, great characters in general.  She was Hemmingway&#039;s favorite living author.  Read her, please!  And make sure her books don&#039;t go out of print.  We should have read Turn, Magic Wheel in high school instead of Gatsby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawn Powell.  Best female writer in the 20th Century.  Great female characters, great male characters, great characters in general.  She was Hemmingway&#8217;s favorite living author.  Read her, please!  And make sure her books don&#8217;t go out of print.  We should have read Turn, Magic Wheel in high school instead of Gatsby.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/05/31/what-we-read-when-we-dont-read-the-internet-presents-au-revoir-pretty-horses-or-why-i-dont-read-man-books-any-more/comment-page-2/#comment-15071</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 23:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=1377#comment-15071</guid>
		<description>First Dude Music, now Manfiction... please tell me Bro Games are next! (Believe it or not, not all games are Bro Games! It&#039;s true!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First Dude Music, now Manfiction&#8230; please tell me Bro Games are next! (Believe it or not, not all games are Bro Games! It&#8217;s true!)</p>
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