I am currently reading the first book of the series. I mostly like it, but the part where he goes into her apartment and is looking at, messing with all her stuff and cleaning her kitchen is weird. It was completely out of character for her to be ok with it and it reminded me of Sady’s Rand parody when B Michael violated her kitchen space! I’m sure I’ll have more to say when I’m actually done with the book, but by then no one will be checking this thread anymore.

The only Updike book I’ve read which actually contains three dimensional women was The Witches of Eastwick – which was a hoot, except of course the women were all competing for access to the same middle-aged schwanz – but they kill him in the end, which made the book somewhat satisfying.

I’d be interested to know what tiger beatdown writers and commenters think of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo – and the other 2 novels in that series. I’ve read so many reviews touting these books as wonderful liberating, feminist (?!) novels, but I’m thinking they should be in a sub-classification of the same genre as the Amis and Updike, “Fond Memories of Vagina which has known extreme sexual violence and therefore is grateful that I don’t beat/rape/torture her.”

Greatly enjoyed your parody – such talent!

Um.

First point: Killer post! I hate “Literature” for all these reasons and more but this was a wonderful way of making me laugh about it!

Second Point: The Tan Pile-on. That has to be the politest (on all sides!) pile on I’ve ever seen on the interwebs! I gotta say a congrats to Sady and others and especially Tan for keeping it pretty civil on other areas of the interwebs it would have already devolved to “You’re Stupid!” and “Oh yeah well so is your FACE!” so I’m impressed!

Also as someone who tends to get into interwebs worked up moments I give a little advice to all (but mostly Tan):

No one likes to be told (or think they’re being told) that they’re wrong to be angry/cross/happy/smug about something. They’re always going to react badly. So my general approach to internet discussion is if I’m feeling cross about a post is to go and get a cup of tea (I live in England!) and watch some trashy television and come back to it much later and repeat the mantra “It’s just the internet.”

*words from a former flouncer of forums*

But seriously well down TBH, and Sady! And Tan!

One thing I thought about when reading the comments was how terrible this novel would be from the point of view of the object of affect. Can we have someone write “Unfond Memories of Being Stalked”?

To all the people who commented on the jokes: thank you. I liked that one too.

ha. wow. I’m glad for your experiences and rules-learning, Garland!

a few months ago i was writing/editing a book (still am, almost done!) that deals in a large way with reconciling white male privilege. so i’m glad you like my writing style, maybe you’ll review it! it’s non-fiction, so no FMOV for you to fill the pinata up with, but that’s neither here nor there when what i actually say matters so very little. in any case i have a female editor slapping me on the hand whenever I break her rules (garland, dude (can i call you that?), her list is like a book)

jeesh. obviously i regret knocking your putting of the man in his place. in my remedial egotism, i overlooked that achievement. the main thing lost, amongst so much, is that my point was intended to be small and just part of the crowd. turns out it was the lone voice of dissent, and here we are.

anyways, just came back to note that I wrote a post on my experience here, and mentioned echo-chamber blogger communities, and the writer/blogger role in moderating that. i did that before seeing sady’s comment, so I wanted to make note, for her, that I appreciate her stepping in.

you guys (whoops!) are doing a good thing here, keep it up!

no, seriously. i feel i’ve been goaded into a bit of an immature tone, and if that’s how you deal i’ll respond in kind. but the ladybusiness is very important. and i thanks you for your fervent and single-minded dedication to its cause.

have a good weekend!

Tan, have you ever spent time on the metaphor “hit me like a ton of bricks?” That’s vertical, clearly it is falling on you (unless someone has found a way to shoot a mountain of bricks directly AT a person, because that there is some Wile E Coyote technology.) Each brick hurts, individually, but sometimes 3 come at once and at this point you are just “WHY DID I STAND ON THE BIG X?” Because that is what that comment thread felt like. And I was DIGGING, man, believe me, backtracking, trying to derail (Well, if you won’t teach me what I’m doing wrong…?) and finally just getting myself banned.

It was not about me. But I was making it about me. I was skipping in to tell them, “No worries ladies, some dudes aren’t like that” to which they rightly replied “-the fuck you say.” and told me all the ways I was not being part of the solution.

But I have gotten much better. Here are the involuable, must have rules for commenting on social justice boards. Brace yourself, I am going to be THOROUGH.

1. Don’t ever act like you are telling anyone something about a group they belong to that they don’t know. Every single one of us share a gender, sexuality, race, and religion with assholes. I am not obliged to FIX anything in my own sexuality so you can take me seriously on the internet.

2. Don’t tell anyone about the experience of being privileged, because it is literally the air they breath. I will never know as much about being gay as I do about being straight.

3. Don’t tell us what is productive and what isn’t. We don’t even like hearing that from each other. We are trying to establish a complex network of social contacts, while working within a area of study that is almost completely male-dominated (criticism), and keep ourselves afloat amid unsatisfying jobs and complex personal relationships. Sometime we just need to make a pinata out of someone and go to town. Sometimes we will discuss very serious things. Last week every single Beatdown contributor turned in stories that were about painful or problematic issues; C.L.’s post made me so mad I went into the garage and screamed.

4. Look up a list of argument derails, one with examples, and then don’t ever do ANY of that shit.

5. Listen. Feminism, for men, is about listening. Being an ally of any sort is about listening. If it isn’t about you, don’t make it about you. Men, as a collective, don’t need anymore defense. They don’t need you as their critical tailback, making sure Feminism is FAIR to them. They are quite monolithic, these men. The very thought of them terrifies me.

I don’t want this to be a pile-on, where you feel exiled from the Beatdown, wandering the internet in search of a voice. I suspect once you have internalized 1-5, we’ll actually kind of like you. DNA point! Amniotic fluid! Hot sauce! I like your style of writing, even if I didn’t agree with anything you said. Thank you for the compliments you made to may writing, I apologize for not answering any of the criticism directly. I think the others have done that quite well.

Thank you for reading the Beatdown.

Please continue.

Garland Grey

Sorry Tan. :/