I’M SORRY, Sady.

Maybe the goal of internet feminism should be to create so MUCH infighting that we all just get tired of it and go do stuff.

Actually, to be kind of serious, that is something the internet is good for. Back in the day, when discourse had to move only as quickly as books could be published, it took way too long to hash things out. Feminists on the internet have made more progress moving toward consensus on discussions of stuff like sex work, armpit shaving and intersections of oppression in a few years than they had in the twenty before that. Sure, those conversations are always a little bit terrible and there are intractable conflicts, but the speed of the internet does allow for a lot more dialogue between a lot more people. So, building consensus on the thorny issues that are most likely to cause divisions in the ranks, and drawing attention to the areas where we can all work together? That’s a pretty good goal.

I don’t think SM considers rape and murder to be light marginalization and I still stand by that.

Is polite disagreement on the internet a goal? Seems pretty minor, really…

Sigh…

1) Telling people their oppression isn’t oppressive enough to matter = TERRIFYING NIGHTMARE TIMES IN THE COMMENT SECTION.

2) Getting into discussions about whose oppression is oppressive enough, whose experience of pain is the most painful, getting everybody to list their painful experiences and marginalizations so that we can prove we are indeed marginalized and that it does indeed matter, etc = TERRIFYING NIGHTMARE TIMES IN THE COMMENT SECTION.

3) Getting into fights about who is being mean to privileged ladies = SUPER ULTRA TERRIFYING NIGHTMARE TIMES IN THE COMMENT SECTION.

I don’t want to shut down discussion, but look: I would think everybody who reads this blog knows how privilege and injustice work. Namely, just about everyone has some sort of privilege — which does not make you a malicious or worthless person, just maybe unaware of the advantages you have and thereby capable of acting the douche at times — and the vast majority of people have some experience of marginalization. (Certainly, I’d say the vast majority of people who comment on this blog probably do.) This is a place where it is okay to talk about your marginalization. It is hopefully also a place where people can recognize the ways in which they’re privileged. It is not a zero sum game, and the one does not cancel out the other.

I think I get what SM is saying, which is that it’s just absurdly aggravating to hear people who are relatively privileged talk about their marginalization without also acknowledging that they have been very lucky. I also think that I get what other people are saying, which is that it sucks to be told that you shouldn’t talk about the violent misogyny or discrimination you DO experience. I don’t actually think SM was saying that misogyny against otherwise privileged ladies “doesn’t count” or shouldn’t be talked about, but the only person who has the right to clarify what SM meant is SM; I’m not going to presume to speak for her. What I can tell you is that if we start fighting with each other about whose oppression matters, the Law Of Internet dictates that this conversation is going to get into a really shitty, non-productive place real fast. So I would appreciate it if further discussion could center on S.E.’s post, and the questions ou asked, if that is possible. Thanks!

Of course, only Snarky’s Machine can answer your question.

For me,

@Snarky’s Machine’s comment

“My goal is not having every online conversation or movement is not dominated by the voices of cis white privileged females who think they’re super oppressed from some light marginalization they experience. My goal is to remind them they are not the most oppressed and they need to stfu”

and your comment

“Make room for other voices, yes. Shut up and learn when you’re ignoring/minimizing the oppression of others, yes. Shut up when you’re BEING oppressive, absolutely”

…are saying pretty much the same thing..

I responded to you because you said Snarky’s Machine said privileged women CANNOT be oppressed. I didn’t see that in Snarky’s Machine’s comment anywhere, so I disagreed with you.

I’m sorry someone did that to you.

I don’t think rape and its aftermath=light marginalization. I don’t think Snarky’s Machine said rape and its aftermath=light marginalization either.