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Sexist Beatdown: Beers of Freedom Edition

Say, ladies! Are you a fan of drinking? And NOT a fan of sexual assault? I can totally sympathize! It’s true that drinking alcoholic beverages – IN MODERATION – can be a delightful way to pass the time. And it’s also true that the world is a scary place. Never more scary than when, after a study finding that “date rape drugs” were less common than rapes that happened after the lady in question had been drinking, folks were like, oh, WHEW, must have been those drunk ladies’ fault for getting all raped then! PROBLEM SOLVED. Witness: “Date-rape drugs are largely an urban myth used as an excuse by women who booze themselves into a stupor,” from the Daily Mail.

Oh, but wait: if somebody gets raped while they are drunk, and not while intoxicated with Date Rape Drugs, isn’t the rape still… bad???

DAMN IT. We’re going to have to start this whole conversation over. With the help of Amanda Hess of The Sexist, and her excellent piece on the matter, and my enduring love of the booze!

SADY: hello! good evening! it is time to discuss date rape drugging, or so i hear!

AMANDA: it is that allotted time!

SADY: first of all, i have to say that your take on the whole scenario was (AS USUAL!) highly impressive and nuanced.

AMANDA: well—some issues were perhaps underrepresented there. there are A LOT OF ISSUES with this ISSUE

SADY: well, this whole report – that date rapes involving date rape drugs are less rare than date rapes involving date drinking – is kind of set to be a highly polarizing thing. like, some people have been like, “see? the floozies are just out getting drunk! and making up accounts of druggedness!” and others are like, “there are, too, date rape drugs!” and what impressed me about your take was that you didn’t (a) minimize assault, or (b) discount that date rape drugs might in fact be less common than acquaintance rape without that factor involved.

AMANDA: I saw that Broadsheet had already written a pretty thought out post that discussed why some women might report being drugged when that was not necessarily the case—and obviously, i read the Daily Mail’s amazingly stupid take on it which suggested that women are big drunk liars—so i thought i’d focus on what the media’s focus on date rape drugs. which is so interesting, because even calling them “date rape drugs” is misleading—the narrative really suggests that when this does happen, it’s mostly strangers swooping in with these drugs, and not “dates” per se.

SADY: yeah, exactly. and this is a terminology flaw which i myself have fallen victim to: using “date rape” to mean “rape that was not the stranger-jumps-from-bushes-with-gun” sort of rape, rather than “rape by one’s date,” which is what it should (and does) mean. i mean: i have to tell you. i don’t doubt that date rape drugs are used. a friend of mine just told me a story about how she suspects she may have been drugged, and although she was not assaulted, all the details line up.

AMANDA: oh! that is a point that i realized after i wrote my piece! it’s possible that druggings are more common than they appear in these studies, but they do not lead to assaults. and that can skew the data, and getting drugged is still an awful thing to have happen to you, even if it doesn’t end in assault

SADY: right, it’s still a violation.

AMANDA: but the whole issue of rape is an issue of skewed data, because reports are so infrequent. but i would THINK—and i dont know this—that reports of drug-assisted rapes are higher than those that don’t involve drugs. because the media is pretty clear about reviling dudes who drug women, and less clear about reviling men who rape women who are drunk.

SADY: yeah. exactly. like, if you’re drunk, it just means you’re a big old mess and/or tramp anyway, and probably you were just drunk enough to “have sex” and “regret it” and etc.

AMANDA: and i think that “reporting” difference is true anecdotally as well—they may not even tell their friends or their boyfriends or what have you, or they will tell them and they’ll be discounted. Etc.

SADY: whereas if you were DRUGGED, you can clearly point to an outside agency in getting you to the point where you could not give informed consent.

AMANDA: right. there’s a degree of “proof” that society accepts with those rapes.

SADY: yeah, and, i mean, i have to tell you: i like to drink. i’m having a drink as we speak! and i am a lady who’s pretty smart about listening to my body, drinks-wise, and not having more than i can handle. but there have been occasions – whether i didn’t have enough sleep the night before, or forgot to eat lunch, or whatever – where A Normal Number of Drinks magically became, for that night, One Too Many Drinks, and i ended up in a messy state. and I was always surrounded by people who cared enough for me to point out that i was a mess, and call me a taxi, and whatever. but HOW SHITTY WOULD IT HAVE BEEN, STILL for someone to assault me in that state? i mean, why the fuck are Drinks considered an extra culpability on your part?

AMANDA: i too love drinking! and perhaps that should be disclosed whenever i defend ladies who like to drink against charges of flooziness! so, FULL DISCLOSURE, drinking! but so: the researchers note that drinking can be sometimes unpredictable, and if your diet or sleep or mood is different it can affect how alcohol affects you. so when, a couple weeks ago, my boyfriend told me he “felt like he had been drugged” because his level of hangover way outstripped the number of drinks he had, i thought it was kind of interesting. but i didn’t actually think he HAD BEEN DRUGGED. though i suppose that’s possible. but i feel like, perhaps, when women are unexpectedly slammed with alcohol—and particularly if they are assaulted while in this state—they may be told over and over again that these experiences are a result of being drugged. i’m not sure if that actually ever happens. but i DO know that if a woman was ever considered unreliable because she reported she was drugged and raped, and it turned out she wasn’t actually drugged, then that would be very sad.

SADY: yeah, exactly. and that’s the thing: while saying you were drugged can be pointed to as an example of how you didn’t exercise agency in the matter (which is important for rape survivors, because as we all know making Bad Decisions means you totally shouldn’t have the right to pursue a criminal sentence for someone who had sex with you against your will) it is also a wedge that can be used to destroy your credibility. which is why women i’ve known who came to the conclusion that there must have been some drugging involved in their assaults have been hesitant to come forward, because they’re afraid that would be used against them. which, in that case, what was your crime? having too many drinks? FALLING ASLEEP????? not to be a big old spoiler, but dudes get to have too many drinks and fall asleep all the time! i mean, a gentleman of my personal acquaintance had too many drinks and was wandering around and got – apparently – randomly beaten up by some dudes in his neighborhood, and as far as i know the police did not tsk-tsk him for wandering around all drunk and beatable.

AMANDA: i know. dudes get to have SO MUCH PASSING OUT without the consequences! and young dudes still binge drink a lot more than women do, not that you would realize that given the media attention given to the matter. male drinking tends to be a bit invisible, i think—it’s just something men do, so there’s no excessive fear about it. even though men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women are. i mean, there are fears about men drinking, but they are fears about literally drinking too much and dying from drinking too much. not fears about drinking too much and getting raped, or even drinking too much and raping another person.

SADY: which maybe SHOULD be a fear. i think this is an important point: these studies which say women who have been raped frequently have also been drinking? they maybe miss the point that women have been drinking while in an environment where everyone – dudes included – is also drinking. and i genuinely think that, if ladies have these regimens over watching their ladyfriends’ drink consumption and making sure they are safe, dudes should also have people watching them to make sure that they don’t get to the point where they are legitimately too drunk to even get what consent MEANS.

AMANDA: yeah. and, i mean, it would help if kids knew what consent means before they knew what “body shots” means. i think it should be on the driving test, personally.

SADY: yeah. that’s a worrisome statement i just made, because it seems to remove some culpability from the rapist. but i suspect that (a) assholes who drink become bigger assholes, and (b) since we all recognize that a drunk asshole is liable to get in a bar fight or whatever, we should also recognize that a drunk asshole might be an asshole who is even more inclined to rape than he was previously.

AMANDA: yeah. it seems that while society’s prescriptions for female drinking include “drinking correctly”—covering your glass, going with friends—male drinking is just defined by “drinking more.” which—again—i like drinking. and if my drinking becomes a personal problem, that will be bad for me. but if my drinking becomes a problem for other people—like i end up raping women or hitting my kids when i’m drunk—then that’s something that REALLY needs to be addressed by society.

SADY: yeah, precisely. and the reason i think this relates to date rape drugs (ha, remember those? HI, date rape drugs!) is that, you know, they exist. and even if they exist less than rapes which occur while the rapist and/or the victim were drinking, that’s still a problem. one incident of someone drugging a person in order to rape them is too many, i would estimate. but the fact that rape occurs more often in proximity to alcohol – well: first of all, i can recall being pressured to drink A Bit Too Much by certain dates, so i think it’s reasonable to state that alcohol can also be an agent of coercion. and, (b) people drink. Specifically young people who want to socialize. As an extremely shy person who is far less shy after drinking, I get the reasons for this. And the fact is that if alcohol coincides with rape, this DOES NOT MAGICALLY REMOVE THE FACT THAT RAPE IS BAD from the equation!

AMANDA: exactly. and i think a lot of it comes down to ladies drinking, because drinking is a dude thing, and when ladies drink it means they’re, horror of horrors, ACTING LIKE MEN, or taking away dude-time, or revealing that drinking does not actually make you more masculine and / or awesome. but sorry, dudes, i’m not going to stop drinking!

SADY: yeah! i mean: i think the Horror of Drinking is the Horror of Unladylikeness, presented in vaguely medical terms. fact is: yep, when ladies drink a bit, they let down their various guards and DO NOT always behave in the manner in which society has accustomed us to expect from ladies. they get loud. they get a bit rude or wacky, at times. they EVEN make out with people that they would otherwise be constrained from making out with! (and oh, how I know that feeling.) BUT, with all the loud and wacky and unladylike behavior they are engaging in, GUESS WHAT? you still don’t get to assault them! because we are not in Ye Medieval Tymes any more, and rape is not just something that happens to Virtuous Women of Goode Renowne. it can happen to ladies who are acting up, too. and, miraculously, it is still a crime. just like you don’t get to rob somebody because you think he is a jerk.

AMANDA: yeah. ok, do you wanna break? i think i’m going to go buy some beer

SADY: do it, lady! ENJOY YOUR BEERS. YOUR BEERS OF FREEDOM.

9 Comments

  1. Scott wrote:

    i mean, a gentleman of my personal acquaintance had too many drinks and was wandering around and got – apparently – randomly beaten up by some dudes in his neighborhood, and as far as i know the police did not tsk-tsk him for wandering around all drunk and beatable.

    Allow me, then. Tsk Tsk.

    I live in Chicago. The crime rate here spikes in neighborhoods around the popular bar areas between 2 and 4 in the morning. Knowing this, why would you wander alone inebriated through these areas?

    When you can take relatively simple action to help ensure your own safety, aren’t you at some point committing what amounts to participatory negligence by not doing so?

    Friday, October 30, 2009 at 3:01 pm | Permalink
  2. Scott wrote:

    So I thought about this some more and “negligence” seems like a bad word, as it certainly would fit in a legal definition.

    I feel sorry for the drunken guys in Wrigleyville who stumble home alone and end up getting mugged, but I also wonder why they didn’t just wait for a cab.

    Friday, October 30, 2009 at 3:13 pm | Permalink
  3. Sady wrote:

    Aren’t you assuming you know more than you do? The story, as I know it, is that my friend was at a party, had been drinking, went out to get more drinks for the party, and was unexpectedly punched in the face by a stranger standing outside of a bodega. He saw a police car on the way back to the party, and told them what happened. As he was speaking to them, a man who had been beaten up a bit worse came up to the car and reported the same thing happening, outside the same bodega.

    In other words, my friend was doing what a lot of people do on a weekend – walking through the city in which he lives, socializing, drinking – and was a victim of a random act of violence, by people who were out to do some violence. Much like many ladies who are raped, actually! And while it makes sense to take measures to protect yourself, most of us don’t go around expecting there to be strangers who want to punch us in the face on every corner. What’s interesting to me is that my friend, and the other man who also arrived at the police car, felt totally comfortable reporting what had happened and sure that their drinking wouldn’t count against them. UNlike many ladies who have been raped.

    Friday, October 30, 2009 at 4:01 pm | Permalink
  4. Mercer Finn wrote:

    The Daily Mail is like the blackest comedy in the world. It’s so vile and unbelievable it almost becomes funny.

    In the UK there was a massive furore a couple of weeks ago about this article:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1220756/A-strange-lonely-troubling-death–.html

    Just incredible…

    Friday, October 30, 2009 at 5:59 pm | Permalink
  5. Gretchen wrote:

    What I’ve heard, from bartenders and friends, is about men spiking women’s drinks with MORE ALCOHOL. Such as pouring another shot of vodka into a fruity vodka based cocktail or mixer, so that women get drunk quicker than they expect, and are unable to make sensible judgements about how many drinks is enough.

    And of course, if a woman is raped and reports it and is drug tested, nothing will show up but a high level of alcohol, which will be treated as something she did to herself, not as something that was done to her with a premediated agenda.

    Friday, October 30, 2009 at 9:14 pm | Permalink
  6. caffeineadddict wrote:

    Scott: “…Knowing this, why would you wander alone inebriated through these areas? When you can take relatively simple action to help ensure your own safety, aren’t you at some point committing what amounts to participatory negligence by not doing so?”

    No. It doesn’t matter what time you are out at night, it doesn’t matter where abouts you are, it doesn’t what gender you are, it doesn’t matter if you are drunk or drugged; nobody brings attacks on themselves. None of this ‘contributory’ bullshit that you are hinting at. No.

    A person (whomever it is) has the right to occupy public space. Saying a particular type of attack is inevitable in a certain area, upon a certain person, is basically a really neat way of trying to keep certain people OUT of public space. It IS a mechanism of control, and it ISN’T acceptable.

    Monday, November 2, 2009 at 2:19 am | Permalink
  7. snobographer wrote:

    Scott- How do you know the cab driver wouldn’t have beaten the guy up or pulled a weapon, taken his wallet, and tossed him out of the cab?

    What’s interesting to me is that my friend, and the other man who also arrived at the police car, felt totally comfortable reporting what had happened and sure that their drinking wouldn’t count against them. UNlike many ladies who have been raped.

    That is, indeed, very very interesting.

    Tuesday, November 3, 2009 at 6:08 pm | Permalink
  8. snobographer wrote:

    Gretchen-

    There’s also old familiar party tricks like rigging drinking games to make sure the target woman drinks more, or make her shots full-strength and your (hypothetical rapist) own watered down, or give her tequila while you drink beer.
    But of course the rapey dudes who’ve been pulling this shit for generations are never called what they are. It’s all on their female party guests for not assuming every guy they ever hang out and drink with would like to rape them.

    Tuesday, November 3, 2009 at 6:17 pm | Permalink
  9. Leigh Olivia wrote:

    @Snobographer

    “It’s all on their female party guests for not assuming every guy they ever hang out and drink with would like to rape them”

    …and what’s great about that is that, when we *do* act like everybody is a potential threat, *that’s* not okay either, and it makes us into “frigid bitches” or (le GASP oh noes!) “humorless feminists”. For a more fleshed-out, coherent explanation of this side of the coin, see Phaedra Starling’s excellent Shapely Prose Guest Post “Schroedinger’s Rapist” ( http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/ ) cause why say it when it’s already been said?

    Wednesday, November 4, 2009 at 3:03 am | Permalink