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SEXIST BEATDOWN: The Male As Male In All His Complexity Edition

Hey, guys! It’s time for more VISIONS OF MANLINESS, it would appear! But, like, here’s the thing: You know how I promised you we would be getting dudes to talk about their manliness? And only dudes? Exclusively dudes, in fact?

I lied.

For, truly, it is time for a Sexist Beatdown, starring Amanda “Not a Man” Hess of The Sexist, and me, Sady “Distinctively Unmanly” Doyle! We will be discussing the topic of Dudes. Specifically, Dudes as experienced by us, some ladies who are into the Feminism on the Internet! We cover many questions that are important to this demographic. Such as: Is there any way Sady can get a little tipsy and paraphrase bell hooks and/or the history of white lady feminists being gross with people of color in what is maybe the most ridonkulously oversimplified manner possible? Why do dudes log on to feminist websites to complain that feminists don’t care enough about The Pain Of Being Manly? (Seriously. They have to move furniture sometimes! It gets intense!) Should you react to a critical, angry, or uncomplimentary statement about you on the Internet as if it is a thousand tiny knives stabbing you in the face? And why does the news of Male Studies Departments, distinct from those wussy Men’s Studies Departments, promising that in their highly educational and not at all agenda-driven classes “the male as male will be permitted to appear in all his complexity as new values are being forged and traditional values that have proven the test of time are affirmed,” give you such an immediate case of the Bad News Bears?

Well: You may read our extensively illustrated and behyperlinked Sexist Beatdown to hear a lot of yelling and maybe/sort of/possibly not really find out!

SADY: Hello, Fellow Lady Person!

AMANDA: Why hello! I am prepared to speak about the experiences of . . . Men People.

SADY: About which I know, I will tell you, not a whole lot! Like, I have known Men People throughout my lifetime. Sometimes in the sense that they are related to me! Or friends! Or I have known them BIBLICALLY! But also, like, pursuant to the Liz Lemonism critique of Times Past, I feel like I am privileged in 99% of the ways that people can be privileged on this our planet Earth. And it frustrates me — and has been a schism in The Feminist History — that, as a lady who is so very fucking privileged, I’m allowed to concentrate so much on my own Oppression By The Man and not notice that some of The Men are going through their own bullshit.

harvey-milk-day

EXHIBIT A: Man.

AMANDA: Right. In the Oppression Olympics, I would not qualify for the finals. I would be disqualified in the first heat. I also am really no good with sports metaphors!

SADY: Well, The Man has staked his claim in those. BASICALLY WE NEED TO TAKE THE QUARTERBACK OF DISCOURSE TO THE GOAL NET OF DISCUSSION TO SCORE A HOME RUN HAT TRICK OF ANTI-OPPRESSION THEORY! Is my understanding.

AMANDA: I plan on blaming all of my deficiencies in forming metaphors, drawing conclusions, and overall making sense on my Oppression today. For the record.

SADY: I intuitively understand you, due to my woman’s intuition. But, like, this is a long-standing Beef within the feminist community, in fact. Like, bell hooks covered it along with approximately everybody else.

AMANDA: Yeah, I mean, a distinction must be made between men and The Man.

SADY: Right. We oversimplify. And a ton of feminists have needed to clarify that “when we say ‘men,’ we mean the Platonic ideal of ‘men!’ The way ‘men’ are encouraged to behave and act and such!” And as a person who types the words ‘dudes’ and ‘men’ a lot, I am sympathetic. Because we DO need a word to denote all that junk. But, to revisit bell hooks for JUST A SECOND, here is how that works out in practice: Some white feminist ladies walk up to some ladies of color, and are like “join the cause, sister!” And the ladies of color are like, “sure, I’ve experienced sexism, let’s go. On the way, can we talk about how you white ladies are enacting some bullshit that hurts me and also the men in my community?” And then the white ladies are like, “YOU ARE SO MALE-IDENTIFIED. WHY CAN’T YOU JOIN OUR GLORIOUS SISTERHOOD AND IDENTIFY AS A WOMAN FIRST.”

AMANDA: Allow me to flip that dynamic around for a second, as I think the distinction between “Men’s Studies” and the totally brand new discipline of “Male Studies” helps to illustrate that point. So, “Male Studies” just had its first conference on Wednesday, to declare “Male Studies” a thing, even though “Men’s Studies” already exists and is welcoming of all who study men and masculinity. And the reason “Male Studies” has decided to branch off from “Men’s Studies” is that Men’s studies thinks too much about Women’s Studies.

SADY: Oh, dear.

AMANDA: When there is just no reason to segregate these two studies, of course.

freire

EXHIBIT B: Man.

SADY: Well, unless you want to teach an entire seminar on barbecue grilling!

AMANDA: And I think feminism suffers from the impulse to segregate the experiences of people and treat our cultural systems (patriarchy, masculinity, femininity, race, class) as separate fields, and I think my work often suffers from that distinction, actually.

SADY: Well, I mean, to be honest, mine does, too. Mostly due to my vast narcissism, and the fact that I write mostly about my own experiences!

AMANDA: Right.

SADY: You could run over my foot with a shopping cart at the Costco, and I’d write this very ideological post that was like, “SHOPPING CART PRIVILEGE: Does It Lead You To Run Over My Foot, and Are You A Monster? Yes.”

AMANDA: But it’s a very tricky thing to attempt to write about the experiences of others, and that’s why your masculinity series is so great! TIGER BEATDOWN PLUG!

SADY: Which is why I try to bring other people into the discussion.

AMANDA: But what about, in addition to bringing in these voices, also writing about issues that don’t directly affect us and which we can’t talk about from personal experience? I think it’s important to do that too, but I think it’s a lot trickier.

SADY: Right. And also, you have to be open to getting yelled at! Is my experience!

AMANDA: Agreed!

SADY: Because there’s a big difference between “speaking about these things that do not affect me directly” and “speaking FOR these people who are having these experiences because I am A GENIUS and get your experience way better than you do.” But, like, it is easy to cross the line?

AMANDA: Yeah. It is. And that’s where the productive yelling comes in.

SADY: So you have to be a good listener, ESPECIALLY when people are yelling.

Martin_Luther_King_Jr-1

EXHIBIT C: Man, yelling.

AMANDA: But, so, then I also sometimes get yelled at if I write about how something affects men? I get the “O but what about the menz!!!!!” comments. I don’t know why it’s written like an Internet cat is saying it, but it is. Even though I write about women a whole lot!

SADY: They are all basically internet cats, those dudes, though. Like, if you write a post about Vajazzling, to use a totally fictional example, and people are like, “did you know some dudes get CIRCUMSIZED??? Monstrous! Your vagina post has inspired me to talk about the ill fates of penises, instead, and at length!” Like, at a certain point, the “WHAT ABOUT ME” posts from dudes are just blatantly obnoxious, and blatantly intended to keep women from writing about their OWN experiences of manliness, ill or well.

AMANDA: Yeah. I have a good friend who is hurt that I don’t write on the expectations on men to move furniture for girls.

SADY: OH MY GOD. OPPRESSION! I too am disappointed that you have not covered this topic Amanda! Also: Being asked to open pickle jars. WORSE THAN DEATH???

AMANDA: Well I’m waiting to roll out my big investigative series. On the possible lingering lower back problems.

SADY: “Once I Had To Carry Your Books Up Some Stairs: A Post About Traumatic Experiences, By A Dude.”

AMANDA: But, I write about a lot of really minor shit that women are expected to do and about how these very little things are reminders of society’s expectations of men and women. And a lot of times men get really pissed when I do that, too! For it is annoying to be forced to think about.

resized_PatrickCalifiacreditMarkIChesterEXHIBIT D: Man.

SADY: Right. I mean, here’s the thing: I’m a lady who gets called out on my privilege. A lot. As I see it, my job description is: Write about lady stuff, try to remember not all ladies have exactly the same life as I do, listen when ladies with different lives are like “uh, you missed something.” So the plague of dudes on the Internet who are like, “WHAT DO YOU MEAN LADIES EXPERIENCE THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN I DO, SOMETIMES NOT WELL?!???!” Like: I try to listen to people EVERY SINGLE DAY, dude, and I haven’t actually had an aneurysm and died yet, so maybe it’s not actually that fucking hard. You know? The Internet is not a thousand little knives stabbing you in the face. The Internet is some people talking. In conclusion, calm down.

AMANDA: Yeah. And that’s when things get tough, for me, when we start talking about the experiences of men like that. Because it’s so obvious how our culture is constructed to make guys like that never have to—and to actually avoid—listening to a woman’s experience, just as it’s constructed to help white people avoid listening to anyone else, and straight people, and cis people, &c.

SADY: Yeah. But then you have things like “Male Studies,” where “The male as male will be permitted to appear in all his complexity as new values are being forged and traditional values that have proven the test of time are affirmed.”

AMANDA: But of course.

SADY: And I get the feeling those traditional values that have proven the test of time kind of involve OPPRESSING THE VAST MAJORITY OF MALES???

AMANDA: Yes. And that traditional man has always been permitted to appear. It’s all the other men who haven’t. But Male Studies cuts them out of the picture when it devotes itself to “males as males,” as if we’re only talking about one very clearly defined and biologically determined type of person.

james-baldwin-nyc

EXHIBIT E: Man.

SADY: Right. Because “the male as male” means cisgendered. It means straight. It means white. It means, like, a lot of shit! Actually! As it is commonly employed! Everybody else, if they can even get recognized as dudes, is treated in the discourse as, “well, okay, you’re a dude. But a SUBSET of dude. We have trouble imagining you as a character on ‘Mad Men,’ so, like, clearly you’re not a part of the glorious history of The Male As Male to the same extent.” But here’s the thing. The ominous thing that I always phrase in a manner that brings to mind, like, the James Cameron movie ‘Aliens.’

AMANDA: Okay.

SADY: All of those dudes excluded from the discourse of Traditional Old-Fashioned-Swilling Wife-Cheating-On Empowered Non-Chest-Waxing Masculinity? And all of the ladies? Add it up. THERE ARE MORE OF US than there are of anyone else. Which is why we need to start fucking talking to each other more.

AMANDA: This reminds me more of that Beyonce song than Aliens, but I see what you’re getting at.

SADY: Like, if we start looking at “masculinity” as this very exclusive concept that has all of these other concepts and privileges packed into it, then we get to my I Went To Liberal Arts College And Have Simplistic Ideas Place where, like… we can create a discourse without you, substantially, Ultimately Privileged People. If we can get over our own bullshit and have each others’ backs, we can do a lot. And maybe this conversation needs to take place on THOSE terms. Provided you’re okay with getting yelled at when you fuck it up. Also, I have had three beers, because it’s hot. THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE SOBER!

AMANDA: NO IT WILL NOT. And I will fight to the death for men to gain the right to drink as much as women do without being labeled irresponsible sluts who deserve whatever is coming to them.

SADY: Yes! Also, that person who ran over my foot in the Costco: A MONSTER. I think we need to centralize this issue. Because that hurt.

AMANDA: Kumbayah!

2007_mad_men_007CLOSING EXHIBIT: Males! You guys, let’s form a Studies Department for them! For example: They would appear to be fictional?

35 Comments

  1. Scott wrote:

    Hey Sady,

    The point about the circumcision discussion in your Vajazzling post:

    I didn’t bring that up as an attempt to derail the conversation, I brought it up because Amanda said: “I am interested to know what a penis would look like if men were instructed to groom their penises so as to make them look less like penises.”

    I don’t often feel like I have useful contributions to the discussions here (I’m really still in learning mode about a lot of this stuff) but I felt like a man’s perspective was being asked for by that statement, so I provided one. I wasn’t trying to be defensive. I actually really enjoy the conversations here, it’s why I keep coming back. So, I guess… sorry?

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 12:58 pm | Permalink
  2. Sady wrote:

    @Scott: It’s OK! It wasn’t you that derailed the conversation to the point that like over 60% of it became Thoughts About Circumcision: It was more of a group effort. And I don’t mean to be nasty about it, but it was interesting that it happened that way.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 1:01 pm | Permalink
  3. PeeMikGee wrote:

    But, but, pickle jars are srsly very hard to open! Imagine the identity crisis a man goes through if a pickle jar shows the slightest resistance to his manly gripping and twisting.
    There is some very real anxiety we dudes have about living up to the Masculine Ideal. If ladies are incapable of being “good people” because of their vaginas, dudes are at risk of failing to fulfill the manly potential that our penises bestow us with and, as such, deserve the same sort of derision that White Trash earns. Pickle jars, amongst other feats of strength, are a test of our manliness and general success/value as a person. This is why it is such a horror to be presented with what is known in the male community as “Satan’s Sour Jar.”

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 1:29 pm | Permalink
  4. Crito wrote:

    I’m familiar with the “Hey, the oppression I experience is just like the oppression you experience, because I have a more limited exposure to oppression, so let’s talk about me now!” problem from undergrad and law-school coursework. I’ve seen it play out in conversation, too.

    Even so, as a privileged, cis white dude, I’m still a novice at all this, so I’m glad to listen to Tales From the Other so I can have a fuller understanding of society and the root of its problems. Thus, I read Tiger Beatdown, among other things.

    My quibble is that if you’re going to insist, rightly so, that I listen to your oppressions and try to break them down within myself and others, AND if I do not try to compare yours to mine, AND I keep mine in perspective, you not minimize my own similar feelings.

    Think about the “I have to help girls lift things!” obligation. It’s pervasively expected and provided. It also reduces me to a simple, mute labor component. What if I do not especially LIKE the girl whom I am expected to help move heavy things? (One time, I didn’t! A lot!) What if I would rather be reading bell hooks? (I would!)

    It makes sense to mock guys who EQUATE lifting-things-culture with date-rape-culture, and derailing should be challenged. But since we’re all in this interrogating-power-structures thing together, as long as we keep each other -honest-, I don’t see any cause for belittling men for not wanting to be expected to do heavy lifting just because, on average, we’re biologically more capable of it.

    I welcome your problematization. Like I said, I’m still a noob.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 1:35 pm | Permalink
  5. Bill Cameron wrote:

    I am interested in your thoughts on the OPPRESSION OF INTERNET LOLCATS. The cat for whom I serve as staff takes issue with the manner in which cats are portrayed on the internetz. Her grammar, usage, and spelling are much better than one might infer from the internetz.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 1:44 pm | Permalink
  6. ElectraSteph wrote:

    I’d like to throw out the notion of making these pickle jars easier to open, so that we may all have pickles without putting this sort of social pressure on the Menz to display feats of manly strengths. Really, that is a lot of pressure to put on anyone for the sake of mere pickles.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 1:50 pm | Permalink
  7. emjaybee wrote:

    My husband is both a man and The Man, because he uses his Freakish Enormous Man Hands to tighten all jars so much that no one else can open them. Including some other men. I suspect this whole Oppressive Jar Conspiracy goes all the way to the top of Jars Inc or whoever sets International Jar Specifications; a ladytopia, on the other hand, would have invented containers that did not require anyone to have gigantic hands to open them. You would probably open everything with hugs, and caring.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:05 pm | Permalink
  8. Samantha b. wrote:

    Peemikgee, I just had that conversation with a friend. She was very worried that if her husband died, she might never eat another pickled product, in this case our beloved chow chow. Then another friend showed us this trick where you tap the lid with the backside of a knife. Totally works! Fishes without bicycles, carry on.

    And really, so much is like this. Brains can indeed trump brawn, if one is willing to put one’s own penis potential to the side.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:22 pm | Permalink
  9. GarlandGrey wrote:

    Male Studies? HAHAHAHAHA Idiots.

    How about we study why male children are still being socialized according the teachings of books such as “How to Raise Boys Who Aren’t Big, Fat Pussies” and “The Liberal, Feminist Agenda To Turn Men Into Tiara Wearing Queers”? Not just because the rest of us have to deal with these people when they get older, but because it gives young men the tools to live in a world that doesn’t exist anymore. How about we discuss why Straight Men are such DRAMA QUEENS? Why does any criticism, or even discussion, of masculinity make them think we are trying to emasculate them?

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
  10. V. wrote:

    Hint to the tiny-handed among us, and those who suffer from Pneumatic-Hands Spouse-itis: On a new jar, an ice pick through the top will break the seal and cause jar-opening to become easy. On a pneumatically-closed-by-spouse jar, ten or twelve ice-pick holes in the top will provide a signal to all and sundry that they should quit messing with the fricken jars.

    (I… don’t have anything that I keep in jars long enough that they need to not start rotting or anything, so, suggestions welcome as to what to use as an airtight top after the first application of ice-pick.)

    Also, while I am asking, anybody who can get back into a sugar-sealed 2-liter bottle of root beer, without sawing open the side of the bottle with a bread knife and pouring it out that way, please let me know. Because that happened to me on Monday, and lack of hand strength is no bar to root beer floats.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
  11. Gnatalby wrote:

    This is how I always end up carrying beds up stairs by myself, pausing to pant every three steps, because I’d rather feel like I want to die than listen to the dudely whining about women wanting to be empowered but not wanting to accomplish their own feats of strength, or whatever.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the crappiness of masculinity’s requirements, but I have NO sympathy for men who want to blame women for that. Dudes set up the patriarchy, and the sooner they realize that feminism– and not more patriarchy– is the thing that will rescue them from misery, the better.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:28 pm | Permalink
  12. Freddie wrote:

    I would ordinarily never, ever do this self-linking deal, but this post kind of compels it.

    http://lhote.blogspot.com/2010/04/feminist-men-and-feminist-blogs.html

    Look, I have to tell you: your whole enterprise here, the whole long and short of it, appears to be an edifice designed to give you a platform that paws at discourse while denying the possibility of you ever getting called on anything. I mean the whole apparatus of the place. It’s like this constant recursion of LOLspeak/serious speak/LOLspeak, this Russian dolls style thing you’re so enamored with. It’s just a mechanism to introduce a self-limiting aspect on what you want to say; you want to be heard and to be taken seriously, but you want the out to be able to say that you were just goofing. Well, goof away, it’s the Internet, and it’s your dime, but understand that you are denying intellectual rigor when you do so.

    This is your space, your place of power, and you can define it any particular way you choose. I am not particularly impressed with this post or the assumptions that undergird it, but mostly I am unimpressed with your defense mechanisms. Say what you have to say. I do, I have, and I will.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:29 pm | Permalink
  13. madaha wrote:

    release the vacuum of the jar by prying the lid out a bit with a spoon. Lid comes right off. I am a lady, and I have NEVER had a problem opening jars.

    I don’t get the whole jar-being-a-problem thing.

    I guess the above comment was a joke, but still….sometimes I feel like I live in a different world than everyone else

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
  14. Gnatalby wrote:

    And my jar opening hint: Turn the jar over and smack the lid against the edge of the counter, it loosens the seal, and voila, pickles open and resealable.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
  15. Sycorax wrote:

    If the jar lid is metal, you can run it under hot water for a bit. When it heats up, the metal lid expands more than the glass jar, et voila!

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 2:46 pm | Permalink
  16. Dora wrote:

    Tonight on the internet: a feminist is accused of having too much of a sense of humor. Wonders never cease.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 3:07 pm | Permalink
  17. GarlandGrey wrote:

    @Freddie I think one thing that you miss in you characterization of the Beatdown is that each one of us – Sady, the contributors, the commenters, the silent readers – are EVOLVING. We are trying to have a discussion about privilege that takes into account our own set of privileges and to make it funny and entertaining. When you use a phrase like “you want the out to be able to say that you were just goofing” you attempt to freeze time and say “You must be accountable for whatever you believe this very moment. You must never evolve.”

    Yes, it sucks big time that some ladies don’t like men who are feminists (even though I think there is a difference between acknowledging that some men see feminism as a way to pick up ladies and saying men CAN’T be feminists). It sucks that some lesbians exclude transladies from festivals; it sucks when people who should know better don’t.

    But the people who post and comment here aren’t just hiding from intellectual rigor, we are forming a tribe. A tribe of intelligent people whose interests are personal evolution on ideas of gender and privilege and dick jokes. If it isn’t for you, start your own tribe. Maybe some of us will find it a better fit than this one.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 3:07 pm | Permalink
  18. Sarah TX wrote:

    I was going to comment over on Freddie’s blog, but it’s all so familiar to me. A lone voice in the wilderness… “There are people on the internet WHO WON’T LISTEN TO ME”.

    Dude, take a number. My voice is devalued every day. It sucks, and the only cure is to do what Sady’s doing – develop a platform and a community that will support your voice.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 3:34 pm | Permalink
  19. eastsidekate wrote:

    your whole enterprise here, the whole long and short of it, appears to be an edifice designed to give you a platform that paws at discourse while denying the possibility of you ever getting called on anything.

    I know, right! I was totally going to call Sady and Amanda on how they like didn’t take into account the fact that my opinion wasn’t the same as theirs. Sadly, like you, I was unable to find a means of publicly commenting on this.

    it’s the Internet, and it’s your dime, but understand that you are denying intellectual rigor when you do so

    Yeah! Look ladies, the Queen’s English exists for a reason! And also is named after a lady! If you wish to be taken seriously by people who matter, you need to talk like them. Otherwise, people might think that you’re different and therefore not so worth listening too.

    NB: Dude, see what I did there? I made two totally serious points, but did it sarcastically. Wait, no, three! In this way, a way able to disagree with you without using any salty language, and also while maintaining my mental hygiene. Pretty neat, huh?

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 3:45 pm | Permalink
  20. b michael wrote:

    Personally (because there are not more ‘—-ly’s more near/dear to me), I find continued prosecution of box-lifting, grill-conducting stereotypes to be hurtful and degrading, as if men are just levers/pulleys and open fire.

    Feminism really is a face-stabbing endeavor that wears on men every day. I don’t think you ever stop and think about that, doyle, hess, et al., do you? As commenter Freddie says on his linked-to post,

    “it is worth asking if a deeper integration of men into the feminist movement is the way forward, and simultaneously whether the tendency of female feminists on the Internet to undercut the male feminist position isn’t an obstacle to that integration.”

    Because, I think you forget, feminism really just -is- an offshoot of male studies. When female feminists make light of male feminist positions, they’re ignoring what’s really at issue with feminism: How it affects men.

    I’m glad to see TB is having a menswherehouse week and returning to the roots of feminism.

    PS

    Will one of you please go on a date with me? I’m very lonely.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 4:22 pm | Permalink
  21. Sady wrote:

    @b: NEVERRRRRRRRRRR

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 5:27 pm | Permalink
  22. Vee wrote:

    @b: I might have your baby, if you ask very nicely.

    Sady and Amanda: When I hit “Well, The Man has staked his claim in those. BASICALLY WE NEED TO TAKE THE QUARTERBACK OF DISCOURSE TO THE GOAL NET OF DISCUSSION TO SCORE A HOME RUN HAT TRICK OF ANTI-OPPRESSION THEORY! Is my understanding” I started laughing and didn’t stop until the end. I APPRECIATE THIS POST AND THE MAJORITY OF ITS COMMENTERS, including the male feminists that come with a sense of humor.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 5:53 pm | Permalink
  23. Gnatalby wrote:

    Sady, my first comment is in moderation? I don’t think I said anything offensive though… are we supposed to email you when this happens or mention it in the thread?

    If I did say something untoward, oops, my bad!

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 6:30 pm | Permalink
  24. Annaham wrote:

    The Internet is not a thousand little knives stabbing you in the face.

    I would like to print this onto a bumper sticker and stick it onto my backpack.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 6:46 pm | Permalink
  25. Wow, Freddie, is this seriously a “female feminists are privileged over men” rant you linked to?

    Seriously? I mean if that’s not what you’re saying, please correct me, but it seems you are seriously arguing that it it’s womens’ jobs to raise up men as important voices in OUR OWN MOVEMENT.

    This is exactly why I immediately suspicious of men who identify themselves as feminists, tbh.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 7:57 pm | Permalink
  26. Angela wrote:

    ILU BOTH

    That is all.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 8:06 pm | Permalink
  27. TheDeviantE wrote:

    Yeah Freddie, why actually engage with the multiple points that Sady and Amanda make when you could accuse them of not making points? And of course we need to ignore the history of Sady being called out on stuff on this blog, ’cause that totally would invalidate your point….

    You don’t speak for me or for any of the other feminist men I know.

    Friday, April 9, 2010 at 10:49 pm | Permalink
  28. JfC wrote:

    Freddie prefers to attack people from his blog for not allowing him to engage with their points instead of actually engaging with their points. After, you get to be called hostile to Reason (of which he is the torch bearer). Win-win, ladies!

    Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 2:11 am | Permalink
  29. Sady wrote:

    @Everyone: DUDES! I think the issue here is that the jars open much more quickly if you HIT THEIR LIDS WITH THE HANDLE OF A BUTTER KNIFE FIRST, so that they acquire some slight dents and lose their terrible death grip on the jar in question! How is it that none among us has mentioned this all-important activist tactic for Male Liberation?

    Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 2:22 pm | Permalink
  30. snobographer wrote:

    This pickle jar discussion doesn’t address my intersecting issue with jars of spaghetti sauce.

    And seriously? Is that what passes for discourse with Freddie? To entirely ignore the post on which he comments and just tell you your whole blog sucks? That’s what he wants to have a “serious debate” about? Fuck that guy.

    Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 10:37 pm | Permalink
  31. JfC wrote:

    Man I just checked out the crossposting on Amanda’s site. It must have spooked the MRA/mansplainer herd because it’s an all out stampede in the comments section. Someone’s gonna lose an eye on one of those thousand [BONERS].

    Sunday, April 11, 2010 at 11:54 am | Permalink
  32. Sady wrote:

    @JfC: Ugh, God. I saw that. Amanda is far better at dealing with mansplanation in her comments than I. She has nerves of steel. (She wrote, while putting the finishing touches on her third and final Freddie post.)

    Sunday, April 11, 2010 at 1:34 pm | Permalink
  33. Sady wrote:

    @Gnatalby: We have a few words that send comments to auto-moderation, even for approved users. Some are obvious, like “bitch,” and some are weird, like “intellectual” and “lowbrow,” because those were flag words for a certain troll in times past. Probably your comment had one of those words in it. But it should have been approved by now! Has it shown up?

    Sunday, April 11, 2010 at 1:37 pm | Permalink
  34. iiii wrote:

    @V.

    This is a little late, but – hold the top of the bottle sideways under running water, so the water gets up in the threads and melts away the sugar.

    Adjustable wrenches may also be helpful.

    Monday, April 12, 2010 at 1:56 am | Permalink
  35. Kit wrote:

    Oh man, about the pickle jars!! We ladies of my household had to have a Talk with The Dude about how whenever he closes a pickle jar he totally puts EVERYTHING HE’S GOT into it to the point where Other Lady, who is a dental hygienist and has the Strongest Hands in Canada, and I, an athlete who outweighs The Dude by fifty pounds, have not the tiniest hope of opening it. Ever. It’s insane how tightly he closed those jars! And we could, like, never eat any pickles!! He was literally oppressing us with our own pickle jars.

    So take that, mansplainers with tired jar-opening hands. You are the architects of your own pain!!

    (Also, in defense of myself, I am not an athlete in a way that involves my hands.)

    Tuesday, April 27, 2010 at 12:56 am | Permalink

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